#x men sexism

[salarta]

Posted this elsewhere, posting here too.

There's a definite trend within official Marvel and X-Men product of liking things that Lorna's had, but feeling she doesn't deserve them and handing them off to "more deserving" characters.

At its core, the problem starts with Lorna's very first issues getting immediately undermined. She was introduced as a more feminist type of woman compared to how Jean was written at the time. Even while she was presented as Magneto's daughter, the emphasis was on how powerful and dangerous she could be in her own right. She was called things like "M-II" and Queen of Mutants specifically for that reason. As someone who was seen as capable of taking on her father's mantle.

But then editorial didn't like that. So daring to be the first powerful feminist woman character led to her being punished for it not just by severing the Magneto connection, but by gradually turning her into a clingy damsel in distress girlfriend for Havok.

She paved the way for other female characters - Jean, Storm, etc - to have more accepting treatment. And elements of how Lorna was originally introduced went to those other characters over time, while Lorna herself was treated like she was worthless and only good for the sad tropes forced on her by sexism.

Claremont had an opportunity to fix that. He didn't. Instead, doubled down on the idea of Lorna being that clingy damsel, AND in the process of trying to turn her into an entirely different character, literally had Zaladane steal her powers. In short, he didn't think Lorna was deserving of those powers, and felt Zaladane was more deserving while Lorna should be reduced to a combo of old tired powers and a hate bullseye thing that was literally just an excuse for Claremont to write everyone wanting to abuse her and Lorna nonsensically acting like she deserved it.

At one point, we had Lorna's flinging Krakoa into space from Giant-Size X-Men #1 falsely attributed to Jean. Whether it was accidental or deliberate, I don't know. Doesn't change that a big moment for Lorna was claimed to be something done by a "more deserving" character.

Then we have all the Magnus family stuff from Children's Crusade to shortly after the Magnus family retcon on the twins. We had a House of M portrait redrawn to replace Lorna with a rando character. We had Enchantress getting played up as Wanda's visual counterpart, not simply a matter of history and personalities, but in the sense of trying to make Enchantress look more like Lorna (including a variant cover that recolored her hair green). Post-Axis, we had the attempt to replace Lorna with Luminous as the twins' "sister."

And now, we had Jordan White trying to make Kitty/Kate Pryde the focus for Genosha storylines toward the end of Krakoa, while bending over backwards to act like Lorna has no connection to Genosha at all. And the X-Men 97 cartoon, where Lorna was completely left out of the whole story of the Genoshan genocide and gave all elements of it to Rogue because Beau DeMayo doesn't respect Lorna outside of being Havok's girlfriend on 90s X-Factor.

The bottom line is, Lorna getting screwed over like this isn't new. People working on Marvel stuff seem to love the idea that key elements of who she is and her history should go to other characters that they like more. When fans of X-Men 97 or other characters act like it's no big deal, what they're really saying is they also don't value Lorna, and think it's appropriate to treat her poorly and perpetuate this cycle that has its roots in sexist punishment of the first female character who stood out with a more feminist approach to her.

[aishabellasbigblogofeverything]

I love it when women hate men. I love it when women are allowed to vent to each other about how horrible and creepy men are. I love it when women form friendships with and prioritize each other over relationships with men(whether they're attracted to them or not). I love it when women put men dni in their bios and on their nude photos and on posts on their blogs. I love it when women refuse to mollycoddle and accommodate entitled male feelings with "but this doesn't mean I hate all men, I know a few men who are great, I love my father/sons/brothers/uncles/male cousins/guy friends" I love it when women complain about men WITHOUT "not all men" being a disclaimer. I love it when women avoid socializing with/refuse to be around/befriend/get close to men because they know men can't be trusted. I love it when women make "kill all men" jokes. I love it when women offer absolutely no concern or care for men's feelings and if their misandry offends men whatsoever because why should we, men are the oppressor class who have raped and killed and abused us and kept us as subjugated as second-class citizens for millennia, they regularly mistreat us and the women in their own marginalized communities still every single day and make this world so much harder and more awful for us to be in, and if we choose to hate them and not spare them any sympathy then so be it, and I don't just mean "men as a class" either, you can be a woman who doesn't want to have anything to do with any man on an individual basis and completely cuts off men from her personal life too and ykw I will love and fucking support you in that because men deserve absolutely NOTHING from us. If they're so tough and strong then they can handle it just like they can handle being lonely. If you are a woman who hates men, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE A LESBIAN AND/OR A TRANS WOMAN, then just know that I love you. I love you, I support you, and you are safe here.

[velvet4510]

Is it just me or is Jean Grey’s entire characterization and storyline in the XMCU unbelievably sexist? I’m just so appalled by it. I have no idea if this is a hot take - I’m brand new to these films, and am totally unfamiliar with the comics - but I really can’t see this as anything other than misogynistic writing.

Between the idea that “woman can’t control her own power” and “woman who two guys are fighting over” … both of those are such dated and regressive concepts but for Jean Grey to embody BOTH of them … and literally NOTHING else? She has ZERO character development outside of these two traits. We don’t explore her friendships with Storm or Rogue or any of the other female mutants. We don’t explore her feelings toward humans, if she entirely agrees with Xavier or if she’s ever curious about Magneto’s view. We don’t get any understanding of her own wants and needs. She ONLY exists to cause pain to all the male characters.

We’re supposed to sob at the end of X2 because all the men are sad. But we are given no reason to care about her for who she is as an individual - only for her ability to make men sad.

Then after it turns out she’s alive in TLS, she goes full-on villain. No psychological complexity, no moral struggles. Just villain. Oh, no, too much power for woman!! Woman can’t possibly control a force like this!! Man must kill her - must kill the love of his life, oh, no, what a tragedy!!! There’s no hope for her; the only way is to kill her.

Then after her death, she is not framed by the narrative in memory as a great X-Man, or as a fallen hero. She is framed as the lost love of a man who she didn’t even love in return. The power that she couldn’t control caused her to kill the man she really did love - Scott - but all the remaining films frame her as no more than the source of Logan’s torment and manpain.

Even when she returns at the end of DOFP, the joy comes from Logan finally getting a second chance at resuming his rivalry with Scott over her.

I haven’t even seen Apocalypse or DP - and I don’t want to - but I already know that those films only make the exact same mistakes all over again!

I guess I should blame the comics for coming up with this BS in the first place, but the movies didn’t even try to improve upon it.

Jean Grey is the most poorly written female superhero film character I’ve ever seen.

[shortkinglogan]

OH GOD OH NO THEY SHOT HIS DICK OFF

TWICE!!

[the-ferocious-kittyrose]

Me searching the “cod x reader” tag for fics that are not misogynistic

[cyclopsboxhead]

Birds of Prey issue 75 has two stories and one of them has to play damage control both literally for the loss of the Clocktower but also figuratively for why the hell would Barbara Gordon do that? The answer is whoever was writing Batman at the time had her do it while Batman was fighting Black Mask in the Clock Tower. I can only imagine how infuriating the decision was, and judging by Simone's writing in this issue I'm almost certain it was made without consulting her at all. The first three pages are wordless, Oracle, Black Canary, and Huntress all have nothing to say as they watch in silent vigil the remains of the Clock Tower being contained by the Fire Department. Then the obligatory page where Simone has to explain why the character she's been writing made such a rash, out of character decision: because she was worried about Bruce.

If it makes you upset that's cause it was meant to. It's purposefully falling into the trope of a woman character making a sacrifice to aid the leading man. Not just that, but Simone takes it a step further by having Barbara make herself the damsel in distress. It reads as "oh this is what you meant by making the character I've been writing do that. So I'm just going to say that out loud so it's clear to everyone else."

Then after the obligatory damage control flashback we get the Birds of Prey all together, Huntress and Black Canary are comforting their leader, teammate, and friend. Here's where Simone twists the knife a bit more, having Barbara talk about the things we don't see when things like this happen in comics. What the characters really lose when they make sacrifices like this: old costumes, family photos, a place to sleep. Memories that are now without their talismans for recall. Now these exist only in the mind and in the past.

And then one more page of group healing and it's back to work. Simone doesn't waste time or pages cleaning up the mess another writer made with her character. She uses exactly as much as she needs while also making those moments linger. She wants you to know how this makes her characters, and herself feel, but she isn't going to give the other writer the satisfaction of making the entire story a reaction issue.

It's really a testament to how much Gail Simone cares about the agency of women both on and off the panel.

[aikoiya]

DPxDC Rant - Superman Isn't A Clonophobe

Hey, this is basically just a compilation of all my thoughts in regards to the subject of Clark being a clonophobe & a bad person from @nelkcats & @wolfeyedwitch's posts on the subject.

A lot of this is just retreading old ground, but I realized that I don't have a post of my own on the subject. I thought I did, but I don't. So, this is just me putting it all out there in one spot. I might add onto it later, but right now, this is good enough.

---

I think Supes is a genuinely nice guy & if someone were to actually try & talk to him about it, he could get to a point where he realizes that he was wrong about Kon & be genuinely apologetic.

Like, everyone's so busy demonizing him over the clone thing that a lot of people don't look at the situation from his perspective.

I just... I guess that I see it as victim-blaming. Not that Connor isn't also a victim, but Lex stole Clark's DNA without his permission & used it to create another person who he wanted to use against Superman. That's basically baby-trapping which is a thing that legit happens & it isn't right.

Woman who impregnated self with stolen semen from billionaire wins child support battle (vanguardngr.com)

So, yes! If you're pro-choice, but also think that the man should pay child support even if he never wanted the kid or you think that Supes shouldn't be allowed to say that he doesn't want Connor in his life, then that is both hypocritical, sexist, & misandristic.

At the same time, Supes' situation could also be considered analogous to a rape victim being forced to keep the baby & raise it despite having been so thoroughly traumatized by the experience.

Like, women these days can freely get abortions or give their kids up for adoption when the abortion doesn't work & it's considered brave & even merciful, but when Clark is put in the exact same position & he doesn't want anything to do with Connor, he's a horrible clonophobe?? Yes, it's horrible, but there is a definite double standard there.

Hell, there are even people these days debating if it's moral for a woman to tell the doctors not to aide the baby when the abortion does fail! And in California, a bill was suggested that would make it perfectly legal for a woman to just up & decide to let her child, one alive outside the womb & no longer attached to the mother, to starve to death if she decides she doesn't want to be a mother anymore despite her life in no way being in danger from the child & adoption being an option! It's just... frivolous!!

And that's perfectly fine, apparently!

Yet, a man who doesn't want to be a father is forced to provide child support? There are even situations where a woman knows that the baby isn't his, but tricks him into thinking it is in order to get that sweet, sweet child support.

(4) How common is it for a woman to intentionally get pregnant to trap a man? Do you know anyone this has happened to? - Quora

You can't deny that it happens! Yet, *nasally voice* oh, the man's responsible. He shouldn't have had sex with her if he didn't want a kid. He did that to her! He got her pregnant! Nyeh-nyeh-nyeh-nyeh-nyeh!

*normal voice* Good grief, why the double standards?

If the man is responsible because if he didn't want a baby, he shouldn't have been having sex, then the same is true of women. If they didn't want kids, then they shouldn't have been having sex either! Period!

Like, don't get me wrong, Clark is absolutely wrong for the way he treated Connor, but it's still understandable why he reacted that way. He was hurt!

Again, it's by no means a good reason to act that way, but it is a reason & an understandable one at that.

Clark is a down home, salt of the earth, good ol' boy & I just think that if the JL had informed Ma & Pa of the situation, then things would've been sorted out much sooner. They'd straighten their boy out quick! And if Clark is still determined to be stubborn & hard-headed about it, then if nothing else, I can see Ma & Pa taking Connor in & giving him all the love he deserves.

To me, this is the Superman I know:

And this is why I think that people are too hard on Supes:

All-in-all, I don't think that he'd be opposed to all clones. Rather, I feel like he has a problem with Kon, specifically, for a very misguided reason.

Besides, Danny has no room to criticize because even though he reacted differently to the revelation of Dani's existence, he is also canonically known to misplace his aggressions. It's even made into a joke in the show. Like, they verbally address it!

One such instance is in the Fright Before Christmas episode where he says that he hates Christmas, but by seeing his reasoning, you realize that it isn't actually Christmas itself that he's angry at, but his parents who argue constantly during Christmas & allow said arguing to ruin the Christmases of those around them.

And, you can pretend that this wasn't a situation of misplaced aggression, but keep in mind that he went to the Ghost Zone to destroy a bunch of Christmas items to take out his aggression on the holiday even though it's just the background for the source of his anger. Then, upon learning that the book he'd destroyed was a Christmas one, his apology turned to satisfaction! He also said so himself!

That's a form of misplaced aggression.

Displaced aggression is defined as "occurs when an animal or human is fearful or agitated by external stimuli, a provocation, or perception, but is unable or unwilling to direct their aggression toward the stimulus. The aggressor may direct aggression toward whoever is nearest." That's exactly what's happening here!

I theorize that he subconsciously feels like it's preferable to hate Christmas than to actually confront his parents' negligence & be angry at them.

Keep in mind, he never blames his parents for their unsafe practices that lead to him half dying.

Danny points his frustrations towards those who aren't at fault all the time. Maybe not in the case of Dani, but definitely in other situations.

---

Furthermore, I also feel like I have to clarify that I grew up watching Smallville, which is sort of a prequel to the Superman saga.

And, in it, (spoiler warning) for a lot of the earlier seasons, Clark & Lex are friends. Like, legit good friends.

So, that probably colors my perspective as, from my point of view, being betrayed so severely by someone who was once your friend hurts a whole hell of a lot worse than someone who's always been your enemy. Especially when you've got as big of a heart with as much love in it as Clark. When you love so freely, it's easy to get hurt & in a lot of ways, it hurts worse when those you trust most betray you.

Also, Smallville? Fun show, ya'll should totally check it out.

Now, anyway, I admit that this probably isn't the case with most iterations of Superman, but I can't help that this was one of my primary sources on the characters' personalities growing up & as a result, I do tend to operate under the assumption that this is his backstory.

Because of this, I might be a little biased & in some way think that Clark might've been experiencing that betrayal by Lex all over again &, to be fair, knowing that he hurt Supes so bad, even if it's only on an emotional level, would absolutely thrill Lex & Clark probably knows that.

Like, I wouldn't be surprised if Clark had mostly gotten over the betrayal, but then this shit happens & it's like the wound is fresh all over again.

So, in this situation, Clark has nowhere to really put all that anger than on Connor, which is wrong, but also understandable.

Because, he can't even let Lex know he's upset because it'd just make the other man happy. Why would Superman give him that satisfaction? In other words, he can't really hurt Lex beyond some annoyance which sucks.

On the other hand, Danny & Vlad were never friends, the millionaire's dumbass monologue about killing Jack & marrying Maddie nipped that prospect in the bud in the literal first episode that he appeared in. So discovering that the guy cloned him didn't hurt Danny practically at all other than the violation itself because he'd already dismissed Vlad as a creepy frootloop.

Meanwhile, from the very start, Vlad wanted Danny as his son, so in some form or fashion, he does care & place value on him. It might be a selfish sort of value, but it is value nonetheless. He obviously has zero idea how to show that care & when he tries, it comes out very toxic & harmful, but he does care. Thus, when Danny rejects him, it hurts. And, somewhere, Danny probably knows this.

Which is why he's free to point his anger at Vlad rather than Dani. To point all that anger & frustration at exactly the person that was responsible. Clark doesn't get to do that. At least, not to the extent that he probably wants to.

Whereas in the case of the Christmas debacle, Danny doesn't want to hate his parents, so he finds it easier to take that frustration out on Christmas because Christmas has never made him happy & won't have the same emotional fallout to it that confronting the fact that his parents are selfish & self-absorbed & negligent would.

Because of this, having Danny lecture Superman on not misplacing his anger actually makes him come across as a bit of a hypocrite & it isn't fair because I have yet to see this point brought up in fics. Instead, Danny is portrayed as completely in the right! Like, it'd be one thing if their version of Danny had grown out of displacing his anger & was even trying to actually move on from it.

Hell, they could even make it so Danny is lecturing Supes from the perspective of someone who used to do it himself & is working on getting better at it. But they don't & instead protray him as holier than thou.

At the end of the day, I just don't think that a lot of fic writers, at least, none of the ones I've read about, give the situation the nuance it deserves, instead going the easy route & turning Superman into an irredeemable asshole when he really isn't. Not usually anyway.

In this situation, yeah, he was kinda a dick, but there's a reason & I feel like people either ignore that fact completely or just say "not good enough."

Hell, they don't even take into account the fact that even in Young Justice, where he's an ass, he doesn't stay that way! He eventually accepts Connor, so why harp on him about it!?

Edit: Someone seemed to be under the impression that I thought Superman had it worse. To the contrary, he has it way better.

This isn't a victim contest, it's about understanding why the characters might've reacted the way they did & that has nothing to do with who has it worse.

You don't have to have a bad life to react badly to things. It's all in how you process information & experiences.

Clark just processed the situation in a very bad way in this particular instance.

The point was to show how the 2 aren't all that different. I can easily see the 2's reactions being switched in the right circumstances.

The thing is, I don't understand why not knowing that Connor was also genetically created from Lex would somehow stop Superman from reacting the way he did towards Connor because didn't he know that he himself was Connor's genetic template from pretty much the beginning?

Plenty of people react badly to having a kid regardless of who the other parent was.

DP Character HC Masterlist

[tuxedosaurus]

Back when I was on Twitter I noticed a trend among some X-Men fans there. X-Twitter, if you will. But first some long Marvel backstory.

Wanda Maximoff, aka The Scarlet Witch, is a longstanding Marvel character, prominent Avenger, and one of few Romani comic characters.

She was also a crucial character in the crossover House of M. She had suffered a mental breakdown caused by unaddressed trauma and mental illness, and seemingly used her magical powers to alter reality as a result. It’s revealed by the end that Magneto and Quicksilver, her father and brother, manipulated her fragile mental state to create the reality they wanted, where mutants like them ruled the world. Still in that state and betrayed by her family, Wanda lashes out at them and removes the source of their actions by depowering mutants across the globe while restoring reality.

Wanda is treated terribly both by the writer of this story and her family, manipulated into doing wide reaching things when she literally could not be responsible for her own safety, much less others’.

Since then, Wanda recovered and helped restore powers to the mutants who lost them in the story Avengers vs X-Men. She didn’t have to, but she’s a good person so she did it anyway. She also found out that Magneto is not her biological father, and thus her powers are not mutant-based.

Recently, the X-Men created a mutant-only country called Krakoa. Krakoa was written as critique of isolationist groups from the start, clearly being a cult and ethnostate. One of the cult things they did was HEAVILY demonize Wanda for House of M, making her a bogeyman to mutant kids as “The Pretender” and making her name a derogatory term. You would think that X-Men fans would use context clues to see that this was obviously bad. Unfortunately they did not.

X-Twitter LOVED ignoring all the intentional problems with Krakoa, and quickly started calling Wanda “Pretender” in real life. They were fully calling for her death and calling her derogatory terms. Obviously, this is a fictional world & character, and being directed at a real person would be way worse. But I still think the ease of which X-Twitter fell into fictional propaganda that demonized a mentally ill woman of color is VERY worrying.

X-Men comics historically have had problems showing actual diversity, and X-Twitter disregarded Wanda’s status as a real-life minority to prop up their fake “homo superior,” and shut down anyone who disagreed. I’m frankly scared by that quickness to otherize and dissonance to reality, so caught up in a fantasy that anyone with an opinion they didn’t share is deemed bad, so caught up in a fantasy that they’ll attack a real minority to prop up that fantasy.

Idk how to end this beyond saying… don’t go on Twitter, X-Men fans are often stupid and crazy, stay conscious of reality, and be kind.

[amayanott]

I was looking up the X-Men because I'm not familiar with Marvel. I get excited at seeing the character named Dust, and I'm like, cool, representation I can identify with. And then her creator happened to be Grant Morrison. The guy who ruined Talia al Ghul's character and turned her into a rapist. That racist and sexist guy created a niqabi character, and I honestly don't want to read anything anymore about her just because of that Lex Luthor look-alike. Grant Morrison is the thorn in my side, and I'm never forgiving him. That's it, that's the post. If I see the guy's name ever again, I'm losing my mind

[mejomonster]

Im gonna be real. I cant do cant engage im tired of etc the femme blah the masc blah i hate gendered boxes fuck boxes thanks thats all

[salarta]

Polaris/Lorna Dane, Original Intent, and Marvel's Refusal to Set Things Right

I wrote this elsewhere. I felt it was worth sharing here too. It was in response to a discussion about original creator intent vs later writers, and how to view treatment in official works.

As the original creator, they knew best who the character is meant to be. They're the ones who put tons of thought into traits they should have, who undoubtedly thought of things influencing the character or important history for them that never hit the page. It's the original creator who visioned up what this character is meant to represent and offer to the narrative and readers. Without the original creator, the character wouldn't even exist.

That does not mean every single thing from the creator should be taken as gospel truth never to be changed or questioned. Lovecraft, for example, was horribly racist. There's no reason to keep his racism intact for the sake of "being faithful." However, the core concepts like what the elder gods are and represent are a thing where looking back at that work makes the most sense if you're trying to do something new with it.

So for Lorna, I look to the original creator and what they clearly intended when they created her. What we see out of that is: Lorna is SUPPOSED to be a powerhouse character who even the X-Men dread the prospect of having to fight, but who they're pleased to have on their side when she's with them. She's supposed to be more progressive and feminist, she's supposed to have a struggle between Xavier and Magneto philosophies, and at least some mutants are supposed to think of her as mutant royalty due to her lineage from Magneto.

Most nostalgia-based depictions of Lorna have none of these elements. The closest they come to it recently is HALF of the last point, where she's of Magneto's lineage but not seen as mutant royalty. And even that one, Brevoort was fighting against it a decade ago. I think the reason for him being so opposed to it comes from how nostalgia-based depictions violate all the other core elements of who she's supposed to be, so he thinks Lorna shouldn't have any of it.

We've talked before about how Claremont toward the end of his run had tried to turn Lorna into a completely different character, down to even changing her powers and plans to change her codename. We say he didn't pull it off, but if we're being real blunt and honest about it, he actually succeeded in his goal. He ripped apart every single thing she's supposed to be, and decades later, it's still a struggle to get even one of those elements to be recognized and respected.

She's supposed to be a powerhouse that the X-Men dread fighting, but she's regularly depicted as a punching bag who may talk and look tough but gets bested easily. "I'm a big gun" she's written saying in 2020s X-Factor, right before getting mind controlled and called stupid because the story decided she had to be depicted acting stupid to benefit others. She's supposed to be someone the X-Men want on their side, but she's completely excluded from most major X-Men activity. She's supposed to be progressive and feminist, but she's instead made out to have her entire identity revolve around supporting other characters, mostly men, mainly Havok. She's supposed to struggle between Xavier and Magneto philosophies, but instead she's most often depicted as towing the Xavier line. She's supposed to be seen as mutant royalty, but most characters act like she's a nobody, with even Exodus getting to be on the Quiet Council instead of her.

This is a character who's been deeply wronged, and decades later, people like Brevoort refuse to set things right because they'd rather be nostalgic for sexism that Marvel got away with decades ago.

[samasmith23]

Quentin Quire: The Evolution from Morrison to Aaron

Over the past few years I’ve noticed that there’s a fairly sizable group of comic book fans who have taken issue with how the character Quentin Quire has been portrayed since his debut in New X-Men by Grant Morrison. Despite there being a lot of fans like myself who personally enjoyed Quire’s redemptive rehabilitation arc during Jason Aaron’s Wolverine & the X-Men arc into a quirky faux-rebel punk, there are quite a few readers who argue that redeeming Quire is inappropriate since Morrison originally framed them as being akin to a fascistic school-shooter during the Riot at Xaviers arc. I’ve discussed at length before about how I personally didn’t have an issue with future writers like Aaron redeeming Quire, especially since I personally really enjoyed how said-arc was handled in WATXM despite the more comedic shift in tone in regards to Quentin’s personality. However, one thing I recently realized was that despite fan-complaints that Aaron completely misunderstood Quire’s character or completely altered his personality, there are actually some subtle ways in which Aaron’s version of Quire is not only reflective of Morrison’s original characterization of him, but gradually abandons those initial negative traits in order to fulfill a positive-growth character arc.

So I was recently reading through a series of articles by ComicWatch editor Travis Hedge Coke titled “Examining New X-Men,” and in them Coke described Quire in those original Morrison stories as being portrayed as a misogynistic incel, stating that “Quire’s heterosexual jealousy throws him immediately into confrontation with men or boys he deems as challenges for the top position in the eyes of girls and women, he perceives girls and women as prizes as a reward for obtaining the top position… [and he] has incredible telepathic gifts including being subtly and intensely persuasive.”

And I will freely admit that... yeah... this kind misogynistic alpha-male behavior is on full display via Quire not only humiliating his fellow student Slick by essentially outing him telepathically through undoing an illusion of his idealized self due to low self-esteem about his actual appearance (consequently resulting in his girlfriend Tattoo rejecting him), but one of the reasons he staged the entire riot at Xavier’s was in a creepy attempt to impress one of the five Stepford Cuckoos.

Additionally, the article also suggested that Quire was also guilty of outright sexual assault since Slick’s aforementioned ex-girlfriend Tattoo immediately joins Quire’s “Omega Gang” and is madly in love with him, and following the riot one of Quire’s gang members desperately tries to convince Wolverine that they were all being mind-controlled by Quire. While Morrison leaves the story vague about whether or not this was actually true or just another lie from one of Quire’s followers to avoid accountability for their crimes, Xavier did state earlier in the arc that Quire’s telepathic abilities were “deep and subtle enough to influence the minds around him” when discussing his development of a cult-following in the form of the Omega Gang. Coke even went as far as to describe Morrison’s Quire as being akin to a younger, less rapey version of Wolverine’s arch-nemesis Sabretooth. It's also worth noting that there also exists subtle racialized undertones (ontop of gendered ones...) in the original Riot at Xavier's arc considering the white and fascistic Quire's overt manipulations of two Black characters in the form of Slick & Tattoo...

Furthermore, in a separate article for GraphicPolicy by Dani Kinney, despite her more charitable interpretation of Morrison’s Quire as someone who was driven to extremes due to frustration with Xavier’s flawed liberal-centrist approach in response to increasing human violence against other mutants, Kinney still criticizes Quire of being racially biased due to his victimization and exploitation of Slick and Tattoo respectively (both of which Morrison frames as bad things in the comic).

Interestingly, later when Quentin Quire began to undergo a rehabilitation arc in Jason Aaron's run on Wolverine & the X-Men (since Logan recognized Quire’s potential as a gifted student and telepath and didn’t want him to fall down the dark path of a mutant terrorist)...

...whether or Jason Aaron intended to or not he ended up showcasing Quire growing beyond the subtle characteristics of racism and misogyny that Morrison originally depicted during the character’s overtly villainous phase. For instance, throughout WATXM Quire begins to form a legitimate friendship and even romantic relationship with his fellow student Idie Okonkwo. Despite this, their first interaction showcases Quentin falling back on his old negative habits, making awkward pick-up lines and advances at Idie (which she hilariously sarcastically rejects in a nonchalant manner, and even Broo points out the inappropriateness of).

As the series progresses however, Quire begins to recognize Idie not as some prize but as a human being with her own autonomy. This is gradual shift first manifests during a school dance in the AVX tie-ins, where Quire is completely dumbfounded to see Idie uncharacteristically wanting to dance with him, even noting that she previously rejected his advances. This sudden shift in behavior for Idie was due to her worsening struggles with internalized-mutantphobia and religious trauma due to having been forced to kill someone by Cyclops in X-Men: Schism, feelings which were recently exacerbated by the Hellfire Brat’s gaslighting of her to give into what she mistakens to be her true “sinful, monstrous nature” via an android televangelist-style priest.

Quire's concerns Idie’s well-being and mental health only increase following an incident during the Frankenstein Murder Circus arc Idie nearly killing a sorceress a fit of traumatic rage due to she herself once nearly being burned at the stake by her Nigerian Catholic village when she first manifested her mutant powers.

This eventually culminates climatic Hellfire Academy arc wherein Quentin Quire actually infiltrates the Hellfire Brat’s supervillain-training school when he discovered Idie enrolled (both due to her worsening religious trauma and gaslighting, as well as wanting to investigate who shot her friend Broo and reduced him to a feral state), and seeks to rescue her from a that toxic environment. Unfortunately, Quire's rescue attempt backfires and he himself ends up getting captured and thrown into the Hellfire Academy's "detention room."

While Quire at this point hadn’t fully overcome his previous negative characteristics (he’s partially motivated by basic jealousy towards Broo and at one point thinks to himself that he might be forced to “telepathically coax” Idie into fleeing the Hellfire Academy), he simultaneously wants to prevent her from killing Broo’s shooter, as he wants to prevent her from going down a similar dark path that he previously did.

Furthermore, I don’t know if this was intentional or not but Aaron actually kinda sort of portrays Kade Kilgore, the Black King of the Hellfire Brats, as somewhat of a dark foil to Quentin Quire. Kilgore as he’s presented in WATXM is essentially like a younger but wealthier version of the kind of jerk Quire used to be during the Morrison New X-Men run. This is demonstrated not only through Kade expressing disappointment at Quire’s failure to live up to the standards of the supervillain academy due to Quentin’s past track record, but Kade is someone who actively manipulates and gaslights Idie by further feeding into her internalized mutantphobia and guilt over having killed before, all with the intent of influencing her into becoming both a murderous supervillain as well as his Black Queen of the Hellfire Club whom he would “have by his side at all times.”

And these are inappropriate behaviors which Kilgore undoubtedly picked up from his abusive corrupt billionaire father despite his own protestations to the contrary (in X-Men: Schism, Kade’s murder of his father was assisted by a secretary who wanted revenge for Kilgore Sr. sexually harassing her). Plus the Hellfire Club in general has a long history of being manipulative and possessive towards women, like with Jean Grey during the classic Dark Phoenix Saga.

So despite Kade claiming otherwise, the Hellfire Club’s misogynistic and manipulative behavior definitely seems to be generational.

In a sense, Kade Kilgore’s creepy & misogynistic manipulation of Idie is somewhat reflective of how Quire previously mistreated characters like Tattoo & Sophie Cuckoo during Morrison’s run. It also demonstrates that while Aaron mostly portrayed the Hellfire Brats as comedic joke-villains due to them being sociopathic spoiled rich 12-year-olds who murdered their parents and seized control over their corporate assets, he still fleshed out members like Kade Kilgore as being negatively influenced by the sexist & manipulative behaviors of his abusive father.

Fortunately however, Idie rejects both Kilgore’s gross manipulations and her own internalized-mutantphobia. While Idie initally seems to accept Kilgore’s offer of becoming his Black Queen, she did this solely just to trick Kilgore into confessing that he was the one who shot her friend Broo. And although Idie nearly went through with her plan to murder the little creep in retaliation, she he ultimately refuses to give into hatred and bloodshed (brought about by both her past religious trauma and the inhumane teachings of the literal supervillain academy) when she realizes that she is still capable of feeling love and and experiencing happiness after witnessing Toad of all people (he was the janitor at both the Jean Grey School & Hellfire Academy) refusing to kill a mentally unstable & murderous Husk (Paige was experiencing extreme mood swings due to a latent secondary mutation tying her emotions to her skin-shedding/transformation powers) because of the love they had developed for each other in previous issues of the series. Sparring Kilgore’s life, Idie then teams-up with Quire to rebel against and destroy the oppressive Hellfire Academy (a conclusion to WATXM’s running gag of Quire constantly fantasizing about instigating another riot and destroying the Jean Grey School).

And while some fans have argued that Quire & Idie becoming a couple creeped them out due to Idie being younger than him, I don’t have too much of a problem with it since was only a 2-year age gap between the two in Aaron’s run (Idie & Quire were 14 & 16 respectively; this was confirmed by the Jason Latour’s follow-up run on WATXM, which featured Quire having his 17th birthday), and seeing Quentin & Idie develop legitimate feelings for each other as they both underwent positive-change arcs actually felt kind of sweet IMO. Plus, Idie was the one who ultimately had to rescue Quire instead of the other way around due to his own rescue attempt FAILING, and the two co-lead the revolt against the Hellfire Brats.

Essentially, Aaron’s version of Quentin Quire felt like a more mature version of Morrison’s despite his new more comedic faux-rebel personality. Quentin by the end of WATXM was no longer a manipulative incel, but had instead evolved into someone who actually learned to respect the autonomy and personhood of not just women, but women of color in particular. This was something that completely flew over my head when I initially read WATXM, but after reading Travis Hedge Coke’s New X-Men articles I began to notice how vastly different Quire’s attitude and treatment towards Tattoo & Idie were, especially since both characters are Black girls. These are some deeper observations about Quentin Quire’s character development & positive change arc that I truly appreciate, since they make me realize that Aaron seemed to understand Quentin’s character a lot more than a lot of fans give him credit for. Sadly though, all this does seem to be lost on a lot of fans due to not just having prior memories Morrison’s more villainous portrayal of Quire, but also due to series which came after Aaron’s WATXM such as Christina Strain’s run on Generation X apparently having Quentin Quire regress into being rude and condescending towards Idie… sigh, oh well that’s the downside of having different writers with different interpretations I guess…

Overall, I'm not against redeeming Quentin Quire like a lot of other fans are since Wolverine in Jason Aaron's run was following in the footsteps of Charles Xavier's philosophy. Logan wanted to give Quire a second-chance and try and mold him into something better than a potential future mutant-terrorist, which he ultimately ended up succeeding in. And while Quentin still boasts about wanting to be the bad kid who destroys the Jean Grey School, most of it is now him being a faux-pretentious brat as he never exploited any opportunity to do so and instead developed empathy with his fellow students, and over the course of WATXM Quire developed leadership skills and even went out of his way to rescue the X-Men at several points in Aaron's series. His faux-rebel attitude is played more for laughs now.

Plus, the X-Men in general have a long history of trying to redeeming or rehabilitating supervillains like Magneto, Mystique, Juggernaut, and even Apocalypse and Mister Sinister.

So why is Quentin Quire off limits for a redemption arc then? Heck, I'd personally argue that Mister Sinister being allowed a seat on Krakoa's Quite Council is far more egregious considering that in past continuity Sinister was literally a Nazi scientist who was present at the Auschwitz death camp.

That seems far worse to me than Wolverine trying to redeem a delinquent teenager who once staged a half-assed riot at Xaviers...

[meadow-mellow]

Man. I'm too old for ship fighting/discourse. I ain't 16 anymore, dunno how these ppl manage to remain so stagnated mentally cause you'd expect they'd outgrow this kinda thing.

[andthespidersfrommars]

I truly can’t believe I have to say this but I am so so sick of some people my age (namely those who are tiktok users, and therefore are deeply influenced by “woke” stereotypes about queer people and queer identities that are often perpetrated on that site) telling me that it’s weird to talk about growing up as a female or about experiencing sexism because I’m not a girl? and that it either “makes it seem like I’m not really queer” when I talk about my connection to girlhood or that these things “shouldn’t concern me.” because they very much do and that’s such an ridiculous and inconsiderate thing to say.

I was afab and whether I wanted it or not I was treated like a girl and experienced childhood as a girl. I am not out to many people in my life and in their eyes I am a girl.

as a genderqueer person I still experience and feel very connected to my girlhood and the solidarity that I have among girls and women because of shared experiences despite not often identifying as a girl myself. this is because of many factors including socialization, oppression and personal identity. truly can’t believe most people I know (and quite a lot of people online as well) still don’t understand that the oppression I have experienced as a queer person who was afab and the oppression I have experienced being seen as a girl are interconnected and that we have to address multiple layers of discrimination simultaneously if we want anything to change. this is. not new information. I can’t believe people don’t get this.

[altruistic-meme]

it's genuinely disorienting to work in an area where we are all women* in a field that most people assume is dominated by men and to have my coworkers STILL tell me "oh that position is a MAN'S job, we need a MAN to come help us with that" like bitch no we don't!!!!! it's not even that hard!!!!! what, because it requires a little extra strength suddenly that means that we're INCAPABLE of doing something??? fuck off. i can and will find a way to do whatever I need to for my position and I will learn how to do it on my own.

(*no im not actually a woman but my coworkers don't know that)

[cultofthepigeon]

twitter xstans like "can you believe we have to cheer for this narc" when the "narcing" firestar did was *checks notes* have tony starks nasty ass talk at her